Are there any major Kung Fu fights going on currently? Or at least a highly stylized slow motion shoot-out?
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Sun Sep 28, 2014 12:20 pm
Algren
now we know
Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2004 9:31 pm Posts: 68340
Re: #standwithHongKong
I've not met one person that knows Kung Fu since being in China/Hong Kong for 3 years. It's just a stereotype. Nobody learns it because it's useless. People in these parts only do ANYTHING if it will earn them money or provided a better life for themselves, and Kung Fu will do neither.
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Sun Sep 28, 2014 6:19 pm
i.hope
Defeats all expectations
Joined: Fri May 26, 2006 5:04 pm Posts: 6665
Re: #standwithHongKong
Algren wrote:
:funny:
I've not met one person that knows Kung Fu since being in China/Hong Kong for 3 years. It's just a stereotype. Nobody learns it because it's useless. People in these parts only do ANYTHING if it will earn them money or provided a better life for themselves, and Kung Fu will do neither.
You just stated another common stereotype.
Sun Sep 28, 2014 6:28 pm
i.hope
Defeats all expectations
Joined: Fri May 26, 2006 5:04 pm Posts: 6665
Re: #standwithHongKong
Good morning, HK.
Apple Daily front page: "No Fear of Crackdown - 60,000 'occupants' call on CY Leung to resign."
Sun Sep 28, 2014 6:34 pm
Algren
now we know
Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2004 9:31 pm Posts: 68340
Re: #standwithHongKong
i.hope wrote:
Algren wrote:
:funny:
I've not met one person that knows Kung Fu since being in China/Hong Kong for 3 years. It's just a stereotype. Nobody learns it because it's useless. People in these parts only do ANYTHING if it will earn them money or provided a better life for themselves, and Kung Fu will do neither.
You just stated another common stereotype.
That is definitely not a stereotype. I live here, man. I see it daily.
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Sun Sep 28, 2014 6:40 pm
i.hope
Defeats all expectations
Joined: Fri May 26, 2006 5:04 pm Posts: 6665
Re: #standwithHongKong
Algren wrote:
i.hope wrote:
Algren wrote:
:funny:
I've not met one person that knows Kung Fu since being in China/Hong Kong for 3 years. It's just a stereotype. Nobody learns it because it's useless. People in these parts only do ANYTHING if it will earn them money or provided a better life for themselves, and Kung Fu will do neither.
You just stated another common stereotype.
That is definitely not a stereotype. I live here, man. I see it daily.
That might be true where you live. But many people in Hong Kong would rather see a short-term shock to the economy than the city's core values (such as the rule of law) deteriorating further. But of course you can argue the rule of law leads to a better life for themselves.
Sun Sep 28, 2014 7:06 pm
i.hope
Defeats all expectations
Joined: Fri May 26, 2006 5:04 pm Posts: 6665
Re: #standwithHongKong
(Photo: Passion Times fb)
Crowds cheer on an upside-down PRC flag at Admiralty subway station.
Sun Sep 28, 2014 7:20 pm
Algren
now we know
Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2004 9:31 pm Posts: 68340
Re: #standwithHongKong
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Mon Sep 29, 2014 12:06 am
i.hope
Defeats all expectations
Joined: Fri May 26, 2006 5:04 pm Posts: 6665
Re: #standwithHongKong
Credit: facebook/Nero Chan
Tue Sep 30, 2014 1:27 am
Bluebomb
Veteran
Joined: Fri Oct 19, 2007 10:53 am Posts: 3028
Re: #standwithHongKong
Fuck Occupy Central. Their tactics are abhorrent and the leaders/pan democrats should all be exiled out of Hong Kong. They are not Hong Kong people. They are radicals that deserve to be banned from this city.
Their whole basis for this protest is because they are not getting genuine universal suffrage and that it does not conform to international standards. Well, last I checked, China is giving them exactly what they want: the ability to vote to select the next Chief Executive. That does not mean, however, that anyone from the street has the right to be elected. Why? Because Hong Kong is not a state. They are a part of China.
But Hong Kong is under the "One Country, Two Systems" principle, you say.
That is correct but let me spell this out to the idiots who are brainwashing our youth. Hong Kong is a part of China, therefore, the leader must act in the interests of both. It does not mean Hong Kong can do whatever it wants.
And what about international standards, hmm?
Well, what exactly does that mean? Everywhere has their own 'standard' for selecting a leader. Unfortunately, your ass is stuck serving a country. Grow up and deal with it. Stop whining and get back to work. Real work.
This protest shows that the Occupy Central movement as well as the pan-democrats do not have the best interests of Hong Kong at heart. Their goal is not for their so-called 'genuine democracy' but to become independent. That's fine and dandy....but only if you are able to sustain it. Can Hong Kong sustain becoming an independent nation? The answer is 'No'. As much as we bitch about mainlanders flooding our streets, taking our properties, shitting in public, etc., the truth is that Hong Kong needs China more than China needs Hong Kong. It will only be a matter of time before China replaces Hong Kong and finds a more suitable city to serve its needs.
So what will happen to Hong Kong then? Well, those same people that are fighting for 'democracy' now will be struggling to make ends meet. Many people will lose their jobs as Chinese/foreign companies will pack their stuff up and leave. If they don't stop this now, the future of Hong Kong will become very bleak.
Joined: Tue Feb 15, 2005 7:33 am Posts: 34865 Location: Maryland
Re: #standwithHongKong
Bluebomb wrote:
It will only be a matter of time before China replaces Hong Kong and finds a more suitable city to serve its needs.
Rumored to be Manchester or Tuscon.
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Wed Oct 01, 2014 1:43 pm
i.hope
Defeats all expectations
Joined: Fri May 26, 2006 5:04 pm Posts: 6665
Re: #standwithHongKong
Sorry, Bluebomb. As much as I like your box office coverage, your post above is pure bs.
Fighting for free elections is not the same as going for independence.
Quote:
"How Hong Kong develops its democracy in the future is completely within the sphere of the autonomy of Hong Kong. The central government will not interfere."
- Lu Ping, China's top official on Hong Kong matters, in the People's Daily in March 1993.
Democratic elections have been promised by the Basic Law and have been delayed since 2007.
Hong Kong government's powers are defined in the Basic Law.
You have to acknowledge the reality that Hong Kong is a Special Administrative Region of China with a high degree of autonomy and not a directly-controlled city like Beijing or Shanghai.
There are so many differences I can name bewteen Hong Kong and the rest of China.
Hong Kong has an independent judiciary, a free press, religious freedom, multiple political parties, freedom of assembly, uncensored internet, a largely liberalized economy, bilateral agreements with other countries, its own currency, complete taxing power, complete spending power, its own passport, its own language, etc.
Hong Kong needs a leader that answers to its own people and actively defends the "one country, two systems" principle.
Thu Oct 02, 2014 4:05 am
i.hope
Defeats all expectations
Joined: Fri May 26, 2006 5:04 pm Posts: 6665
Re: #standwithHongKong
Quote:
@wilfredchan: The vice chancellors of HKU & CUHK (top 2 universities of HK) are here to rally their students. Students are ecstatic.
This is pointless. The mainland Chinese aren't gonna join them so whatever "change" they may create won't mean anything, so until the majority of China starts doing this it will be business as usual once this eventually ends.
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Fri Oct 03, 2014 9:48 am
i.hope
Defeats all expectations
Joined: Fri May 26, 2006 5:04 pm Posts: 6665
Re: #standwithHongKong
nghtvsn wrote:
This is pointless. The mainland Chinese aren't gonna join them so whatever "change" they may create won't mean anything, so until the majority of China starts doing this it will be business as usual once this eventually ends.
I don't think anyone was thinking of getting people from the mainland to join them. If they manage to get the message out through the firewall to the mainlanders, good. If not, fine. That's not their goal or strategy. The point is they make their stand known and keep putting pressure on the government.
Fri Oct 03, 2014 3:23 pm
i.hope
Defeats all expectations
Joined: Fri May 26, 2006 5:04 pm Posts: 6665
Re: #standwithHongKong
Some background information:
This issue here is ballot access. On August 31, the Chinese government put forward a framework for the election of the city leader that will essentially block out any candidates from the pan-democratic camp, who consistently receives 55 - 60% of votes in the legislative elections. This will deny voters a genuine choice of candidates.
The issue has been boiling since 2007 (or more accurately 2004, when Beijing re-interpreted the Basic Law on its own to deny a free election), the year HK citizens are supposed to elect their leader through universal suffrage guaranteed by the Basic Law, the mini-consitution of HK. Today, it has reached the tipping point. During the 7-year period, moderate pan-democrats have made several concessions that enabled Beijing to delay the promise of universal suffrage. Voters have since punished, through elections, those moderate pan-dem legislators for having settled for too little and delayed the issue for too long.
So who is at fault here? Pan-democrats who have compromised on the issue and still are betrayed on the promise of universal suffrage? Or the Chinese government who has been tricking people into believing the promise will be fulfilled some day but now has shown its true color?
Fri Oct 03, 2014 4:35 pm
Bluebomb
Veteran
Joined: Fri Oct 19, 2007 10:53 am Posts: 3028
Re: #standwithHongKong
i.hope wrote:
Sorry, Bluebomb. As much as I like your box office coverage, your post above is pure bs.
Fighting for free elections is not the same as going for independence.
Quote:
"How Hong Kong develops its democracy in the future is completely within the sphere of the autonomy of Hong Kong. The central government will not interfere."
- Lu Ping, China's top official on Hong Kong matters, in the People's Daily in March 1993.
Democratic elections have been promised by the Basic Law and have been delayed since 2007.
Hong Kong government's powers are defined in the Basic Law.
You have to acknowledge the reality that Hong Kong is a Special Administrative Region of China with a high degree of autonomy and not a directly-controlled city like Beijing or Shanghai.
There are so many differences I can name bewteen Hong Kong and the rest of China.
Hong Kong has an independent judiciary, a free press, religious freedom, multiple political parties, freedom of assembly, uncensored internet, a largely liberalized economy, bilateral agreements with other countries, its own currency, complete taxing power, complete spending power, its own passport, its own language, etc.
Hong Kong needs a leader that answers to its own people and actively defends the "one country, two systems" principle.
I never said they are the same. I said that their goal (intent) is to become independent, free of China's rule.
Yes, democratic elections have been promised so that is why Beijing will allow Hong Kong citizens to vote for the next Chief Executive. That in itself is democracy. Under the one country, two systems rule, Hong Kong have their own system of running things BUT they have to come with the support of China because Hong Kong is under Chinese rule. It does not mean that Hong Kong citizens should be allowed to nominate because of the 'One Country, Two Systems' principle.
This guy summarizes the whole situation down to a T. The so-called leaders of this "revolution" wants to overthrow the Chinese rule but uses democracy as a guise.
Quote:
The prevailing media narrative about the Hong Kong protest — namely that the citizens are politically dissatisfied and are fighting for democracy against the tyranny of Beijing — is false. What’s actually happening is this: A fringe of radical (or sometimes, more charitably, merely naive) ideologues are recasting the real and legitimate economic grievances of people here as a fight about Hong Kong’s autonomy. ... Hong Kong’s iteration shares certain characteristics with the ones in Cairo and Kiev: First, there is general popular discontent over the prevailing state of affairs and the region’s probable future. Second, while the foot soldiers are largely well-intentioned people with genuine concerns for their own welfare and that of the Hong Kong society, they are led by activists with a strong ideological agenda. As a result, their aim becomes the overthrow of the government or sometimes the entire political system. Third, the press relentlessly cheers them on and thereby amplifies the movement and turns it into a self-fulfilling prophecy. Fourth, democracy is always the banner. ... But the protest message, as described by the loudest activists, is problematic, because its central theme of democracy for Hong Kong is all wrong. The degree of political participation in Hong Kong is actually at its highest in history. Before 1997, Hong Kong was a British colony for 155 years, during which it was ruled by 28 governors — all of them directly appointed by London. For Chris Patten, the last British governor of Hong Kong, to now brand himself as the champion of democracy is hypocrisy of the highest order.
Only after the return of sovereignty to China 17 years ago did Hong Kong gain real public participation in governance. Today, half of the legislature is directly elected by the public and the other half by what are called functional constituencies. The chief executive, a native Hong Konger, is selected by a committee of 1,200 other Hong Kongers.
Further, Beijing has now devised a plan for voters to elect the next chief executive directly, rather than by committee, in 2017 among candidates fielded by a nominating committee — also made up of Hong Kongers. The proximate cause for today’s upheaval is the protesters’ demand for direct public nomination of candidates, too.
I can understand protesting about the inequality and the growing gap between the rich and the poor. But that does not give people the right to occupy a public place nor disrupt other people's lives.
They are just pissing people off with this occupation and nothing good will come out of it. This occupation will just push China away and it will just kill business in Hong Kong in the short term and in the future.
An election in which a political camp with 55% of public support will be prohibited from running. Tell me that is democracy. It's like the Republican Party or the Democratic Party in the US is forever shunned from running for president. What is the point of having an election if people can't freely vote for candidates of their choice?
Tue Oct 07, 2014 9:38 pm
i.hope
Defeats all expectations
Joined: Fri May 26, 2006 5:04 pm Posts: 6665
Re: #standwithHongKong
@antd
memehk.com fb
Mon Oct 13, 2014 1:19 am
Bluebomb
Veteran
Joined: Fri Oct 19, 2007 10:53 am Posts: 3028
Re: Hong Kong Protests
Now that the occupation is entering its third week, I am so thankful that the police are trying to bring this to an end. Let me explain what has happened and should happen next.
1. All of these occupiers should be fined and jailed.
Here's some of the incriminating acts that they have done:
Occupying a public place Disorderly conduct * Stealing * Assault * Obstruction using barricades (and strengthening of barricades using concrete, twist ties, chains, etc.) * Obstruction on the barricades themselves (yellow ribbons, messages, etc.) * Resisting arrest * Resisting the police from taking down their barricades * Blocking people from going to work
(* Not all protesters have done this)
I hope all of them get caught and be forced to pay back the taxpayers and businesses for causing so much disruption.
2. Their idea of democracy will not work.
In what land do we live in where a city makes the demands for a country to accept? Hong Kong is under China. Those occupiers need to accept that and move on.
3. Demanding something never leads to a good outcome.
Demanding Leung Chun-Ying to resign and Beijing to accept their demands is ridiculous. They do not run Hong Kong.
4. Asking the police to notify you beforehand to remove your barricades is nonsense.
These protesters can do that when they run a dictatorship. Until then, they have no leg to stand on.
5. These people are occupying, not just protesting.
These protesters are breaking the law and they should be punished accordingly.
6. Accept the consequences of your sit in rather than complain and whine.
These people need to understand that there are consequences to their actions. They are law breaking citizens. They can call it 'a peaceful protest' but at the end of the day, they are still breaking the law and they deserve to be punished for it.
7. Could this occupation be sponsored by the US Government?
Interesting report on the news. They speculated that the US Government may be in on this occupation. They said that US taxpayers money is being funneled toward US based democracy groups in Hong Kong.
8. The longer this occupation goes on, the more people here suffers.
HK has lost over $350 billion dollars due to this occupation in the past 2 weeks. Businesses are down 40% overall and some close to the occupation sites are down 80-90% in sales. Bus routes continue to be affected and some tram routes are still suspended.
Moving on to media, media coverage here is ridiculously biased towards the protesters. They show the protesters taking over the tunnel and celebrating like they just liberated a city filled with evil soldiers for more than 5 minutes but they only show the police re-taking back the tunnel in 2 minutes.
Aside from that, a couple of the questions being asked to the police yesterday were so stupid. One, in particular, caught my ear. One journalist asked the police why they were cutting the yellow ribbons off of the barricades but then she added (paraphrasing) that they were obviously not blocking anything and then went back to asking them why they are doing it. The police responded that there were looking into the matter. This journalist should not be insinuating anything and she needs a brush up on law. Any object on those barricades is considered an obstruction and has to be removed. She needs to go back to school as well for her biased questioning. Journalists are not supposed to do that.
Reading your post is like reading China's mouthpiece People's Daily...
Bluebomb wrote:
Demanding something never leads to a good outcome.
Demanding Leung Chun-Ying to resign and Beijing to accept their demands is ridiculous. They do not run Hong Kong.
It's entirely not ridiculous. Beijing, the HK government, and the pro-establishment camp have backed down before.
An anti-subversion bill (Article 23) was withdrawn in 2003 amid massive protest. The same July 1 protest prompted the resignation of then Chief Executive Tung Chee-wah in 2004. The anti-"National Education" curriculum campaign in 2012 successfully pressed the government to shelf the said curriculum indefinitely.
Another good news is the HK government is eager to resume talks with student leaders after calling off conversations unilaterally five days ago. Why the sudden change of tone? Because the government knows it's losing public support.
Police officers allegedly beat a handcuffed protester in a dark corner. Seven officers are being suspended from work pending investigation.
First of all, that protester that they beat up is the same one dumping liquid on police officers earlier. It is unclear if the liquid itself is water or urine (both have been reported) but it does not matter what it is. He should be arrested and jailed for assault on quite a number of police officers. The police force should issue an apology over the beating.
Don't exaggerate? I am just reporting what is being widely reported everywhere.
First of all, that protester that they beat up is the same one dumping liquid on police officers earlier. It is unclear if the liquid itself is water or urine (both have been reported) but it does not matter what it is. He should be arrested and jailed for assault on quite a number of police officers. The police force should issue an apology over the beating.
Don't exaggerate? I am just reporting what is being widely reported everywhere.
The professor even said that this is a conservative estimate.
There's no excuse for the police moving a handcuffed individual to a corner and then attacking him. Abuse of police power is a serious crime. The policemen involved should be criminally charged for torture, or at least common assault.
I would not quote People Daily if I were you. It's a Chinese state-owned paper that has been censoring news of the protests. Not a credible source.
Data showed the number of mainland visitors was up (vs last year) during the first week of October despite China banning group travels. The average spending per visitor was down due to China's weakening consumer demands. Shops remain open and sidewalks are not blocked at protest sites. Retails and transportation are hardest hit, but overall, economic loss remains limited. Loss as a percentage of GDP is estimated at 0.15% per month.
Ken Tsang, victim of alleged police brutality, is a social worker, a member of the Civic Party, and a member of the Election Committee that elected the current CEO of HK C.Y. Leung.
The alleged attackers
Sources: Ming Pao, Apple Daily
Fri Oct 17, 2014 12:39 am
Bluebomb
Veteran
Joined: Fri Oct 19, 2007 10:53 am Posts: 3028
Re: Hong Kong Protests
i.hope wrote:
There's no excuse for the police moving a handcuffed individual to a corner and then attacking him. Abuse of police power is a serious crime. The policemen involved should be criminally charged for torture, or at least common assault.
I would not quote People Daily if I were you. It's a Chinese state-owned paper that has been censoring news of the protests. Not a credible source.
Data showed the number of mainland visitors was up (vs last year) during the first week of October despite China banning group travels. The average spending per visitor was down due to China's weakening consumer demands. Shops remain open and sidewalks are not blocked at protest sites. Retails and transportation are hardest hit, but overall, economic loss remains limited. Loss as a percentage of GDP is estimated at 0.15% per month.
Ken Tsang, victim of alleged police brutality, is a social worker, a member of the Civic Party, and a member of the Election Committee that elected the current CEO of HK C.Y. Leung.
The alleged attackers
Sources: Ming Pao, Apple Daily
More traffic does not equal more business. I bet most of the travel coming now are just for the Occupy Central protests. Many places are suffering major losses from what I've seen. Not just retail.
Most of the media in HK is not very credible either, even where free speech is supposedly taking place but they constantly slant the coverage in favor of the protesters. They should be neutral and not taking sides.
I think the police involved in the beating should be suspended without pay. Obviously, the attack, while abhorrent, was due to the fact that the guy was the one dumping liquid onto the police. That does not justify the beating but it at least give answers as to why it happened and it establishes a motive for why the beating occurred.
Police Brutality? No. If he didn't want to get hit, he should have not dumped the liquid on the police in the first place. Stupid.
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