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 The Trump Era: The Awkward Mix of Libertarianism and Fascism 
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Post Re: The Trump Era: The Awkward Mix of Libertarianism and Fas
It’s so dumb though. Trump needs to either

A) give up
B) declare a state of emergency

Would it better to come to a compromise? Yes but it’s no use arguing with brick walls like Schumer and Pelosi.

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Sat Jan 12, 2019 5:19 pm
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Post Re: The Trump Era: The Awkward Mix of Libertarianism and Fas
What compromise would you suggest?

Trump did make a bit of a critical mistake, that now hurts him at the negotiation table, to say Mexico would pay for the wall.


Last edited by stuffp on Sat Jan 12, 2019 8:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.



Sat Jan 12, 2019 8:32 pm
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Defeats all expectations
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Post Re: The Trump Era: The Awkward Mix of Libertarianism and Fas
nghtvsn wrote:
Well tell Nancy and Chuck to allocate 0.0000001% of the federal budget to build/repair/replace fake walls/steel slats/fencing that doesn't work even though there are already fake walls/fencing/slats on various sections of the various border states that apparently do not work even though they all previously voted to build all these fake/immoral fences/slats/walls in the past.

All this fake outrage over 5.7 billion out of a trillion+ dollar budget was and is nonsense.



So you say the existing barrier is fake. How can you guarantee Trump's wall won't be as fake?

That $5.7b figure alone is fake. The admin's own DHS estimate puts the bill at a conservative $21.6b, barring eminent domain and other legal and construction issues. I suppose Trumpists would not want a jerry-built walled prison, right? And don't let Mexico get away with this. Mexico needs to be shut down to pay for the wall.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-immigration-wall-exclusive/exclusive-trump-border-wall-to-cost-21-6-billion-take-3-5-years-to-build-internal-report-idUSKBN15O2ZN

https://www.politifact.com/california/statements/2017/apr/28/scott-peters/would-trumps-border-wall-cost-same-one-and-half-us/


Sat Jan 12, 2019 8:35 pm
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Post Re: The Trump Era: The Awkward Mix of Libertarianism and Fas
stuffp wrote:
What compromise would you suggest?

Trump did make a bit of a critical mistake, that now hurts him at the negotiation table, to say Mexico would pay for the wall.


He said on Friday that he never said such a thing though. How dare you say otherwise! :mer:

Anyway, the worst thing about all of this is how McConnell is choosing to do nothing. The Senate isn't doing its duty. Who cares if Trump says he'll veto any bill that would reopen the government? That's how the process works. Let Trump veto the bill or bills, and then let the them come back to the floor for the override vote. Then, if it passes, it passes; and if it fails, it fails.

I imagine that if this goes on for months, resulting in many federal employees to seek employment elsewhere, not to mention how badly low-income families that rely on services such as HUD and food stamps to get by will be impacted, that enough purple or blue state Republican senators may force McConnell's hand in this.

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Sat Jan 12, 2019 9:14 pm
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Hold the door!
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Post Re: The Trump Era: The Awkward Mix of Libertarianism and Fas
stuffp wrote:
What compromise would you suggest?

Trump did make a bit of a critical mistake, that now hurts him at the negotiation table, to say Mexico would pay for the wall.

Oh I guess not a Compromise. A give in. You can’t compromise on a wall. There either is or isn’t one haha.

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Sat Jan 12, 2019 10:47 pm
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Post Re: The Trump Era: The Awkward Mix of Libertarianism and Fas
Yeah, ad I'm not sure what Democrats would want, but I imagine, Trump must be able to give somethings in return, I'm not sure if he has, but that should be a place to start. You give me the wall, and I'll give you this, this and that.

Also, funny:


Sat Jan 12, 2019 10:54 pm
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Post Re: The Trump Era: The Awkward Mix of Libertarianism and Fas
The Democrats, many of whom will be presidential candidates, are afraid of their base if they support a bill that opens the government but funds the wall. It's 99% politics and 1% financial/moral/ideological at this point for Democrats. Compromise means losing. I truly believe that for Trump the reason is 60% ideological (i.e. his views on immigration) and 40% political.

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Sun Jan 13, 2019 12:33 am
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Post Re: The Trump Era: The Awkward Mix of Libertarianism and Fas
The logic is pretty simple.

Rule:
Funding of the wall requires approvals from both Congress and the President.

Current situation:
Congress disapproves the funding.
The President approves the funding.

Conclusion:
Funding of the wall is rejected.

Now who is holding federal employees hostage when the wall money has already been rejected?

Trump is a stable genius, smart enough to know better than to abuse President's emergency power. Let's hope.


Sun Jan 13, 2019 1:36 am
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Post Re: The Trump Era: The Awkward Mix of Libertarianism and Fas
Trumpbots do not care that Mexico isn’t literally sending pallets of cash to pay for walls,fences,slats whatever you call it.
The 5.7 billion of nothingness is only for 200+ miles of structure. He tried offering a outrageous DACA fix plus...well actually comprehensive illegal immigration reform which I hate that term but that deal fell through.
Any deal like that now would need complete funding again.
Finally, some folks have amnesia here because remember when chuck ran the senate and wouldn’t bring up endless House passed republican bills to the senate floor for a vote? Well because Obama wouldn’t sign them or he himself would say they were doa so why bother. What Mitch is doing is no different.
At this point it’s either give him 3.5 crappy billion for some immigration something or trump declares the national emergency and we go to court which he will win as the law is plain as day but there’s more than a few mentally ill judges out there to say otherwise until it gets to the SC. Hopefully Ginsburg has stepped down by then btw. She’s close

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Sun Jan 13, 2019 7:00 am
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Post Re: The Trump Era: The Awkward Mix of Libertarianism and Fas
I imagine those bills Schumer refused were not a matter of government shutdown.


Sun Jan 13, 2019 7:33 am
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Post Re: The Trump Era: The Awkward Mix of Libertarianism and Fas
THis budget bill wouldn’t be either except you have one half of congress opposing 5.7 billion no matter what .

I think they should do a full immigration cleanup. Go back to that DACA stuff . The dems do have the upper hand her I think so why not take it and get almost everything you want from trump and give him the walls that don’t work at the same time . Everyone wins !

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Sun Jan 13, 2019 10:42 am
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Post Re: The Trump Era: The Awkward Mix of Libertarianism and Fas
If does go to March,l predict the Democrats would cave and give him like 2.5 billion for the wall or something. T say give him 2.5 billion, it is going to cost 20 times to build the wall. It will never get built especially with eminent domain which would take years to decide in court.


Sun Jan 13, 2019 6:11 pm
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Post Re: The Trump Era: The Awkward Mix of Libertarianism and Fas
Jedi Master Carr wrote:
If does go to March,l predict the Democrats would cave and give him like 2.5 billion for the wall or something. T say give him 2.5 billion, it is going to cost 20 times to build the wall. It will never get built especially with eminent domain which would take years to decide in court.


Which is why the "emergency" claim is just bullshit. If it's an "emergency" you have to, by definition, act quickly.

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