I think the only action that was really justified, was that one guy coming out ONTO THE COURT getting layed out.

Dumb Detroitians and Paconians.

I agree 200%. If you come out on the court, you deserve to get your ass handed to you in a big way. I'd be upset if they punished Artest or O'Neal for that one.

That was one of the few moments I did think was funny in the whole thing.

When I first saw the highlights I thought for sure this had to be a Canadian hockey game as it looked like something that stupid Canadians would do. I'm pretty sure that most of the idiot fans were from Canada. Detroit is right on the border. It's just a theory.

It was sooo funny. The guys running on the court and wants to get into the fight and runs into Artest. They look at each other for a second before Artest decks him. Then another fan pushes Artest and falls and just as he's getting up gets decked by O'Neal. Oh and that guy got taken away in a stretcher (the one that got decked by O'Neal)

Canadian basketball fans would go to a Raptors game any day over a Pistons game.

http://www.detnews.com/2004/pistons/041 ... -11159.htm

This is my point exactly. Whey you race into the stands, it is not a 1 on 1 situation. You're going to hurt innocent people and you will now have a 20,000 vs. 3 situation. On the flip side if a fan comes onto the court it is 1 on 1, and is fair game, IMO.

Also, I still wonder why Artest had to be a pansy and avoid Ben Wallace who did FAR worse things to him than any fan did (before he jumped in the stands). I would have had a lot more respect for Artest if he went after Wallace who was on the court and actively trying to fight with him. Perhaps Artest knew he'd get his ass handed to him so instead decided to pick on the weaker fans.

Do you have a problem with Artest because your opinion on him seems very biased. He's a pansy for doing the right thing and not fighting Wallace but he's a dickhead for jumping into the stands and fighting hundreds of fans who were throwing punches and beers at him.

NEW YORK (AP) — The NBA has suspended Ron Artest, Jermaine O'Neal and Stephen Jackson of Indiana and Ben Wallace of Detroit indefinitely for their roles in Pacers-Pistons brawl Friday night.

Commissioner David Stern calls brawl "shocking, repulsive and inexcusable."

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/basketba ... ions_x.htm

He raced into the stands after getting hit with a plastic cup. He was not punched prior to taking on all the fans. Whereas, he WAS punched by Ben Wallace but somehow found enough restraint to control himself there. I found it odd that he could control himself so well against Wallace, but not from some idiot fan 20 feet away that threw a plastic cup at him. Doesn't that seem odd to anyone else?

After I watched it again, I also thought it odd that Artest seemed to attack the smallest weakest fan he could find - that wasn't even the one who threw it. My theory is that he wanted to let off some steam, but knew he couldn't take Wallace, and the cup was his perfect "opportunity" to take it out on someone a lot weaker. In my mind that makes him a pansy. If he has that much pent up rage over Wallace, then at least take it out on HIM. On the court fights happen all the time, that's part of sports. They'd get suspended, but it's not unusual, or out of the ordinary. I'd at least have a little more respect for him.

Artest is an idiot, and always has been. He has a history of major idiotic behavior. He's the poster child for what is bringing down the NBA's image.

not really that odd. Maybe just one more thing was enough to set him off.

He knew if he punches Wallace he gets suspended. However, the cup thing was the last string and he just lost it. He wasn't wrong for losing it either. Plus, the fan he attacked WAS the guy who threw it. Why do you keep saying it wasn't?

One other thought to this. I go to lot of pro sports games in person (basketball, baseball, football).

I can't tell you how many sports games I've been to, or seen, where fans throw debris onto the field. I went to a NYY game in NY, and they were constantly doing things to the Seatle Mariners. If any of you have been to or watched a decent amount of games, I'm sure you've all seen idiot fans throw things onto the playing field at the players at one time or another.

This is why most stadiums don't give out glass beer bottles anymore, or have "bat day" or "ball day" or give anything hard to fans that can be thrown onto the field. It is a sad commentary, but the fact is that this happens ALL the time in sports.

The different thing in this situation was the fact that Artest decided to take the fans on. I had never seen that before. So, yes, I lay a lot of this at his feet as his decision to do that turned it from "ugly, but normal" to "nearing a full scale riot".

That set Artest off. He raced into the stands and started swinging. The first person he hit was Mike Ryan of Clarkston.

"I have no idea," Ryan said of why Artest picked him. "He was on top of me, pummeling me and he said, "Did you do it? Did you do it?' And I said, 'No, man, no.' He kind of shoved me and went off on other people."

That doesnt mean he didnt do it, of course. But, anyway, Artest shouldnt have gone into the stands.

Hopefully they have a camera that was positioned to see who did throw it. It would be great if they could charge the individual fan with assault and set an example. That happens way too much in pro sports.

And from watching the footage, there is no way in hell Artest could have seen who threw it from his position.

Jim Gray said that Artest knew exactly who threw it and who he was going after.

I saw Jim Gray talking and he never said that he knew that to be a fact.

By all accounts, Artest attacked the wrong guy, not just by the guy's statement. Here's another article from foxsports:

Artest flew into the stands, predictably attacking the wrong fan. The poor guy looked fairly confused as Artest took him down to the ground. To his credit — I guess — the guy who actually threw the projectile went in and grabbed Artest, pulling him off the innocent bystander as all hell broke loose. The would-be peacekeeper, whom we would later realize was the true instigator, then tipped his hand by firing a couple of punches into Artest's temple from behind.

http://msn.foxsports.com/story/3179666

4 players were suspended indefinatley by the league

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylc=X3oDMTBpbmdmam0wBF9TAzI1NjY0ODI1BHNlYwN0bQ--?slug=ap-pacers-pistonsbrawl&prov=ap&type=lgns

I have to side on the Players side on this issue. Just becuase you make millions of dollars doesn't mean fans can treat you any kind of way. The fans are the one who turned this thing ugly. When Big Ben Choked/Pushed Artest he walked away and laid down on the scorers table to calm down. Stupid fan paid x number of dollars to see his team win wanted to get involved by attacking yes ATTACKING Artest. Fans need to know that players are not going to take shit all the time and when they cross the line your going to get your ass kicked. I look at it like if you provoke anything in this world long enough you'll get bit sooner or later.

It's ridiculous to try to defend anybody's actions in this. Whether it's the fans or players on either side, nobody will come out smelling like a rose on this one. Trying to say that Artest was right in his actions is way off base.

But, bottom line is that I really don't see this as a "taking sides" issue as every side acted like idiots no matter which way you try to look at it.

If the below report from CNN/SI is correct the suspensions will be as follows:

Artest: 30 games
ONeal: 20 games
Jackson: 20 games
Wallace: 5 games

That'll screw the Pacers pretty good.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2004/b ... ml?cnn=yes

Tony even worse.

Artest is done for the season, O'Neal for 25, Jackson for 30, Wallace for 6, Anthony Johnson for 5, and several others for one game. This is bad for the Pacers but awesome for Knicks fans.

Yep.

But even if I wasn't the fan of NY I'd feel that punishments were fine.

So who is going to score for Pacers now? Fred Jones? They are screwed big time, unless Tinsley turns into Allen Iverson, and Reggie Miller turned back the clock for 10 years.